Serial killer Ian Brady admits he talks to himself in his cell – but adds “who doesn’t?” as he attempts to convince a mental health tribunal that he is sane and can be held in prison, not hospital.
The Moors murderer, speaking publicly and at length for the first time since he was jailed for life in 1966, said he enjoyed “eclectic, freewheeling conversation” and often walked up and down his cell reciting Shakespeare and Plato.
Ian Brady also admitted he talked to himself, but added: “Who doesn’t talk to themselves?”
The serial killer reportedly wants to prove he is sane and should be transferred from the high-security Ashworth hospital to a normal prison.
His legal team say he has a severe narcissistic personality disorder but is not mentally ill and could be treated in prison rather than hospital. However, staff at the hospital maintain that he is chronically mentally ill and remains a paranoid schizophrenic who needs around-the-clock care.
If I interact with the TV, Tony Blair or something… this is interpreted as psychosis. And, er, who doesn’t talk to themselves? Ian Brady
Speaking at a mental health tribunal to decide the issue, the Moors murderer appeared in a dark suit, white shirt and tie and dark glasses and described his life behind bars.
Asked about relations with staff and patients at Ashworth, where he has been held since 1983, Brady said he enjoyed conversations about “everything”.
He said: “Eclectic, I can’t stand robotic, feeble, whether psychologists or just ordinary people, if I think they are just going through a list of checkpoints.
“Eclectic, freewheeling conversation. I don’t choose the subjects. That’s what I enjoy.”
Brady’s lawyer Nathalie Lieven QC put to him the “evidence” compiled by Ashworth to show he is mentally ill and should not be transferred back to jail as he wishes. She asked Brady how he explained supposed hallucinations and episodes of talking to himself.
Paranoia? That's reasonable suspicion
Ian Brady looked like an unremarkable old man in a suit, except for the feed tube dangling from his nose, writes Northern Correspondent Ciaran Jenkins from the tribunal.
He's refused food since 1999, the same year he began his campaign to move from a maximum security mental hospital back to a normal prison.
Fourteen years on he has his platform, and half a century of gripes about his captivity to get off his chest.
The psychiatrists who treat him are "opportunists" he claims. Yes, he talks to himself: "Who doesn't?"
"Paranoia? The authorities regard it as paranoia, the prisoners regard it as sensible suspicion," he adds.
He speaks softly with a mild Scottish accent, eyes shielded behind dark glasses. He never looks up, but the rant is relentless: the media are obsessed, his treatment too draconian. It is not, he says, like Wormwood Scrubs in the 1960s, where he met with the Kray brothers and members of the IRA. It was a "cosmopolitan atmosphere," he recalls.
And so he wants to go back. To prison, where he can refuse food and die. At least that's what he has hinted in the past. Now he seems less sure. That was a hypothetical question, he said: "You can't make plans when you have no freedom."
Brady said: “Well, first of all – prison. I was in solitary confinement for a time. I would memorise whole pages of Shakespeare and Plato and other people and recite them all to myself while walking up and down exercising in the cell.
“If I interact with the TV, Tony Blair or something on, and make any comment, this is interpreted as psychosis. And, er, who doesn’t talk to themselves? This is a question people very rarely ask.”
He also described how he has studied psychology and German while in prison. Brady said he set up a Braille unit and also worked as a barber at Wormwood Scrubs in the 1970s. He has been held in Ashworth hospital since 1983.
Brady claims he is no longer mentally ill and should be returned to prison to serve the remainder of his whole-life sentence. He also claims to be on hunger strike, although the tribunal heard on Monday he makes himself toast.
Since 2002 Brady has repeatedly asked for a public hearing, which he said would provide “true independence”, the tribunal has heard. He last spoke at length in public when he gave evidence at his trial at Chester assizes where he was eventually found guilty of three murders.