‘A lot of people chose hate over hope’, says Professor of American Culture

We’re joined by Sarah Churchwell, who’s professor of American Culture and Humanities at the University of London.

Matt Frei: What is your state of mind this morning?

Sarah Churchwell: I am, like a lot of Americans, trying to process the fact that I think Americans have just shown us who they are, and a lot of us were hoping that this wasn’t really who they were, who we are, as a nation. But a lot of people are saying, and I agree with this, that there is a mandate here. He is absolutely right about that. They have chosen the things that he said he was going to do. I think that, for me, I think that a lot of Americans voted with their eyes open and they saw who he was and they decided they want more of that. We have an election here where a lot of people chose hate over hope. And that is a very difficult thing to say, but it seems to be what we’re looking at. But I also believe that a great many Americans convinced themselves, as they did the last time that they voted for him, that he doesn’t really mean it. It’s performative. It’s show business. He’s just saying it to get elected, all of that kind of stuff.

The problem is, I think, and we heard this just with your interview with Tom Tugendhat as well, is that with the greatest of respect to him, I will say that I think that people are still treating Donald Trump as if he acts in good faith. And we just heard in his acceptance speech there, him saying that he will never stop until he’s fought for the interests of the little guy. That is just ludicrous to me that anybody could believe that that’s true. But people voted on the basis that they think that he will. And we’ll see if it’s true. But he doesn’t operate in good faith. So that’s what we’re now going to have to watch and see for the next four years.

Matt Frei: And he did say in his speech last night that he would try to unite the country. Many people greet that with scepticism. But one thing that I came across, over and over again on the campaign trail, is that feeling from Trump voters, explicit ones or shy ones, who say, ‘you know what, those people in New York, those academics, all those Hollywood stars who came out in favour of Trump, they don’t really understand us. They look down on us. There’s too much condescension there’. And in a sense, the vote that you saw for him, is a very strong reaction to that, isn’t it?

Sarah Churchwell: It is, but you know in that sense it is very much the same as the vote in 2016, that aspect of it is. But it’s a vote driven then by spite, and spite is not going to shore up our democracy. So they voted to stoke that division. As you say, he says he’s going to unify the country. Well, he has never done anything to unify the country. He’s also said he’s going to go after his enemies. He’s going to go after his critics. He’s going to turn the military on American people. All of that stuff. So the idea that this is going to be unifying is belied by, as you say, their own choice, which is they chose division. They chose to try to say, ‘okay, it’s us and them and this is a tribal choice and we’re voting for us against them’. And that is the enemy within, right?