Badenoch has ‘parallels’ to Thatcher, says former chancellor Kwarteng

Kwasi Kwarteng was Chancellor of the Exchequer during Liz Truss’s short premiership.

We spoke to him about Kemi Badenoch’s victory, and asked if the Labour party would be the real winner of the Tory leadership contest.

Kwasi Kwarteng: I don’t really think that, I think it’s a pretty remarkable thing for Kemi to have won. She’s the first Black female leader of any major political party, and that’s something significant and we can’t know exactly what’ll happen.

Cathy Newman: What does that historic moment say about the country and also the Conservative Party?

Kwasi Kwarteng: I think it’s a good thing for the Conservative Party to elect somebody of Kemi’s background. Funny enough, I was in Nigeria a month ago, in Abuja, the capital, and they were very interested in the race, and they were struck by the fact that they didn’t believe, actually, that this would happen. They said Britain was far too racist. The Conservative Party is far too backward looking and that we would never elect Kemi Badenoch as the leader.

Cathy Newman: How does she possibly get the election as leader, possibly get to Number Ten? It’s an incredibly fraught path to power. Do you think she’ll even be leader at the next election, given how divided the party is?

Kwasi Kwarteng: Yeah, I think the biggest issue she has is to sort of dial down a lot of the chaos and uncertainty that dogged our time in government. And I was part of that, I fully put my hands up. She needs to calm things down. She needs to build a team. She needs to reach across the party. And actually, her success or otherwise will be determined by the government. There’s an old adage, oppositions don’t win elections, governments lose them. And that’s often the case.

Cathy Newman: But you say reach out and dial down the chaos. But she’s got a reputation for starting a fight in an empty room. How does she kind of bring the party together with that reputation?

Kwasi Kwarteng: I think a lot of that is exaggerated. She says what she means, she’s very direct, but I think she’s also a leader. She can build alliances. She’s got deep friendships within the parliamentary party, she’s very popular with female MPs across the ideological divide, if you like. And I think she’s got the ability, the leadership ability, to bring people together.

Cathy Newman: Does she need to sort of think before lashing out?

Kwasi Kwarteng: We all have to think before lashing out. That could be applied to everybody.

Cathy Newman: She’s pretty robust on X, for example, on Twitter.

Kwasi Kwarteng: The one thing I would do is I would get somebody to manage a Twitter account. What she can’t do is engage in Twitter fights every day. I’d strongly advise that somebody curates and looks after her Twitter.

Cathy Newman: When it comes to economic policy, you’ve seen the Labour budget this week, very clear ideological stance, higher taxes, higher borrowing. Does that give her an opportunity to carve out a more radical offer on taxation, for example, something that you’ve tried to do?

Kwasi Kwarteng: I’ve said repeatedly, looking back and we’ve had two years to think about this, I agree with the direction of what we tried to do, but we tried to do too much, too fast. Doing everything in one go was wrong and it spooked markets and we suffered the consequence of that. I think what she can do in opposition, she’s got four years as leader of the opposition, don’t forget, she can really build a credible staged strategy, a process which is going to lead to the outcome she wants, which is whatever vision she has for the country.

Cathy Newman: Haven’t you prevented any Tory leader from coming up with a radical tax-cutting policy?

Kwasi Kwarteng: The people said that at the time. It’s got to be staged. It can’t be all done in one go. But I think over time, what will be critically important is how the government today, and if for whatever reason we don’t get growth the next two or three years, there will be very severe questions asked by people, serious questions as to how we can grow the economy. And I think at that point, there will be an opportunity to try and figure out how you can actually reduce the tax burden.

Cathy Newman: Is that her instinct, do you think, on the kind of Liz Truss mega-low taxes agenda?

Kwasi Kwarteng: No, she’s not a Truss-ite. She’s not an anything-ite, as far as I know, she’s Kemi Badenoch, and she’ll have her own approach. Does she think taxes probably are too high? I would suggest she probably does. And don’t forget, she ran as leader herself in 2022. And I think at the time she was saying that taxes were too high, then.

Cathy Newman: You say she’s not a Truss-ite. Is she a Thatcherite? Some people have said they see her in that mould and very much coming into opposition. She’s an opposition leader, it looks like a hopeless task winning at the next election. Similar situation?

Kwasi Kwarteng: Yes, there are parallels and I think some of the personality, I did meet Margaret Thatcher a couple of times, I think some of the personalities are similar. They’re straight shooters. They say it how it is. People accuse them of being combative, confrontational, even. But a lot of that is just being very honest and being straight with people. But, of course, we’re in completely different times. And I think some of her policy positions will be very different from Margaret Thatcher’s.

Cathy Newman: So who would you like to see in her frontbench? Key roles, shadow chancellor, for example?

Kwasi Kwarteng: I think there’s a role for Robert Jenrick. I think he fought an excellent campaign.

Cathy Newman: She hinted that, didn’t she, in her acceptance speech?

Kwasi Kwarteng: Really good temperament. I think Rob is a great asset to the party. I think other people, I think Laura Trott. I don’t know her very well, but I know that she’s very competent, very persuasive on economic issues.

Cathy Newman: She could be shadow chancellor, then?

Kwasi Kwarteng: She might be, I don’t know. But Claire Coutinho, I think was in the last cabinet of the Rishi Sunak and has backed Kemi Badenoch, I expect she would have a role.

Cathy Newman: Shadow home?

Kwasi Kwarteng: I don’t know. I’m not in the business of guessing what roles these people will have. I don’t think Suella Braverman will come back as a shadow home secretary.

Cathy Newman: You’re hoping not?

Kwasi Kwarteng: I’m not hoping anything. I’m just guessing that would be the case.