Global community wants ceasefire, says Foreign Secretary

We spoke to the Foreign Secretary David Lammy.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Foreign secretary, there is war in Gaza, in Lebanon, and Israel is planning its attack on Iran. You’ve been calling for a ceasefire and it seems nobody is listening.

David Lammy: Look, the whole international community has been calling for a ceasefire. Here in the UK, we were calling for a ceasefire in opposition and I came into office and repeated that call in relation to the Israel-Gaza theatre and, of course, now in relation to Lebanon because we believe that a political settlement, that sees Hezbollah move back beyond the Litani River and meet the obligations under Resolution 1701, is preferable to war and to conflict. So, of course, I’ll be back in the region this week urging restraint and people to step back from the brink. We do not need regional war. That would be catastrophic, I think, for the Israelis, for the Middle East and for the wider global community – and would cause tremendous strain on all of our economies.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: But isn’t the trouble that a lot of people think your position, and the Americans’, which is quite similar, is a mixed message, because on the one hand, you’re calling for a ceasefire and on the other hand, you’re saying we support Israel’s right to self-defence. And they take that as a green light to carry on with their attacks.

David Lammy: Look, the whole global community wants to see a ceasefire. We, in the UN, just a few days ago, came together urging a 21-day pause – that was not accepted by Israel. And of course, the international community recognises that Iran particularly, with the missiles that they have rained down on Israel, would of course cause a wider escalation in the regional war. That’s why British planes supported Israel in their – in our – desire to stop those missiles landing on Tel Aviv back in April. It’s why we had planes over the skies again just a few days ago. And it’s why Iran supporting proxies, supporting Hezbollah, supporting Hamas, supporting the Houthis, remains a threat not just to the region, but to the wider global security. So we’re absolutely clear that, of course, we support Israel in terms of their right to self-defence. But we’ve always been clear it has to be within international humanitarian law. That is why with regret, I had to make the decision I did a few weeks ago to suspend arms that could be used in Gaza because our export licensing regime is amongst the very robust in the world. And that assessment had been crossed in terms of a clear risk.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: But the prime minister has ruled out going further as President Macron is calling for. I mean, Israel is also now being accused of breaking international humanitarian law in its war in Lebanon, as well as the multiple allegations in Gaza. Why are you sending them anything?

David Lammy: Look, I do reject the suggestion that we should have a complete arms embargo of Israel. And the reason I reject that is because if those missiles landed on Tel Aviv and there was a tremendous loss of civilian life, like night follows day, I’m afraid we would be in a regional war. I do think we have to reckon with the tyranny that is Iran. We can’t, on the one hand, march and campaign against the tyranny that the Iranians are raining down on their own people – never mind the region. And then on the other hand, say we should leave Israel defenceless. I do not believe we should leave Israel defenceless from the Houthis, from Hezbollah. But, of course, in terms of being the British foreign secretary, our country must never be in breach of international humanitarian law. Our export licensing regime set up by the last government has to meet its obligation. So with regret, I have made that decision in relation to Gaza because it is the right thing to do on the basis of our law.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Okay. But is it just Israel that has the right to self-defence or everybody in this region? I mean, Israel is about to strike Iran in the coming days. Does Iran have a right to self-defence?

David Lammy: Look, of course, I am urging restraint on the Israelis. I would like to see a line drawn under further activity. And we do not want to see escalatory behaviour because, as I say, we risk a wider war that would be catastrophic for Israel.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: But does it have a right to self-defence?

David Lammy: Krishnan it’s true also that in relation to Lebanon, Israel has been bogged down in Lebanon before in a ground war that’s gone on for years. That’s led to a lot of loss of life both in Lebanon and in Israel. And what we don’t want to see is Lebanon tip over into something close to Syria, which is a haven for terrorist groups. So for all of those reasons, we continue to say that a diplomatic solution is what is required. I will be in the region again this week urging the same, working with G7 partners. You saw the G7 statement last week saying that it’s only diplomacy that will get us out of this. I will continue to work with partners day after day until we bring this crisis to an end – diplomacy fails until it succeeds. As frustrating as it is.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Given what you said about Iran, why hasn’t Britain proscribed the Revolutionary Guard?

David Lammy: Well, incoming into government, we are looking at state threats. We don’t comment on proscription, of course. But can I say that we are looking very definitely at this and how when we’re talking about a state-sponsored organisation as opposed to a terrorist cell organisation, how it is best dealt with.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Didn’t you say you wanted it in opposition?

David Lammy: It’s right to say that Iran is subject to many, many sanctions under the last government and of course, particularly in the context of their nuclear ambitions, you would expect us to be very, very clear on that issue.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: I mean, when you think about the last year and the mass killing that has taken place – now on so many fronts – in a very short period of time here, another 2,000 people dead in Lebanon. It is, the 7th of October, one of those moments in history, like 9/11, perhaps, that is going to define the coming decades.

David Lammy: On this particular day, I keep in my heart those hostages and their loved ones and families. I’m particularly thinking of Emily Damari, the British hostage, and her mother and her family. And yes, I do think this has been an extremely challenging year for the global community with war, not just in Europe, but war in the Middle East. We are on the brink. And that is why we are urging the communities there to step back from a regional escalation. This has been the most frustrating of a year, and it’s been a bleak year where over 45,000 people in the region have lost their lives, many of them women and children. But we must do all we can to urge peace, to urge diplomacy, to continue to work together and to continue to urge both sides in this conflict – not saying there’s a moral equivalence because there cannot be between a terrorist group and an elected government – but to urge both sides to find the necessary 10% to get that hostage deal over the line, to get that ceasefire. That is where we now are and we need those partners for peace.