Green energy transition is ‘unstoppable’, says Ed Miliband

We spoke to the Energy Secretary Ed Miliband and began by asking him what he thought of Donald Trump saying climate change is a hoax.

Ed Miliband: Well, I don’t believe it is a hoax.

Alex Thomson: What do you say to somebody…

Ed Miliband: It’s real. Just look at events in Spain. Look at the fact that we had a 40 degree day in Britain two years ago. Look at what’s happening in the US. It’s definitely happening. But, you know, the interesting thing, Alex, is it’s definitely happening and this transition is happening and it’s unstoppable, look around this…

Alex Thomson: Now we know about the transition, but is that the message you will, as a government, have to say to the incoming president?

Ed Miliband: The message for us is we’re going to do what’s in our national self-interest.

Alex Thomson: Give us a sense of how people’s lives are going to change, because that means real change that we’re going to see and feel.

Ed Miliband: Sunny uplands, I would say.

Alex Thomson: Well let’s hope. A solar reference.

Ed Miliband: Let me paint a picture for you, I think it’s a really good challenge. So a power sector driven basically 100% by renewables, nuclear, clean power in terms of buildings, warmer homes, insulated homes, cutting emissions, and also a big transition to heat pumps, because that’s really important. Potentially batteries in homes as well. A transport sector where big take up of EVs, electric vehicles.

Alex Thomson: Okay, that’s your vision of sunny uplands. But there are dark chasms. The poor British taxpayer.. .

Ed Miliband: I thought you’d try and find the dark chasms.

Alex Thomson: Well, there’s a big one. And it’s subsidies. The poor British taxpayer currently paying £5 billion a year to oil and gas companies, making huge profits anyway. How are you going to stop that?

Ed Miliband: What we’ve done in relation to the oil and gas sector is we’ve raised the windfall tax, until 2030…

Alex Thomson: But how do you stop the subsidies, how you’re going to do it?

Ed Miliband: …of 78 per cent. Let me be absolutely frank with you. In terms of the North Sea, I think it’s really important there is a just transition. Those can’t just be words. They’ve got to be a reality. It’s true that there are capital allowances for investment, much bigger capital allowances for investing in decarbonisation thanks to what Rachel Reeves did in the budget. I suppose what I’m saying to you is, I think nobody could accuse us of not being forward when it comes to oil and gas. We’re taking this leading position of any G7 country, any country around the world actually, on new licences because it’s in line with the science. But we’re also about ensuring that there is a just transition for those workers. And that’s why building up the future, carbon capture and storage, the hydrogen economy, jobs in offshore wind, big announcement made by Scottish Power of investment in jobs in Siemens in Hull today. Really, that’s the future. That’s the future. But it’s got to be a just transition.

Alex Thomson: You mentioned carbon capture. Give me an example where, right now on planet Earth, that is working. A power station, big scale.

Ed Miliband: Well, in terms of carbon capture, the technology, it’s been used in Norway for decades now.

Alex Thomson: But can you give me an example right now? Give me an example at scale.

Ed Miliband: We are doing it on a bigger scale than it’s been done elsewhere.

Alex Thomson: Not a power station scale, we’re not.

Ed Miliband: We are. No. We are doing our biggest… Net Zero Teesside, which is our plant for gas with carbon capture and storage, is definitely a world leading project. Just to be clear about this, this is the sort of anti-Michael Gove position. We’re led by the experts on this.