‘Hamas will not disappear because one leader was killed’, PNI leader on Sinwar death

We spoke to Mustafa Barghouti, a politician in the West Bank, who’s leader of the Palestinian National Initiative party.

We began by asking what changes he thinks Yahya Sinwar’s death might bring.

Mustafa Barghouti: It doesn’t change much, except that it takes away from Netanyahu more arguments about why he should continue this war. He used to claim that he is continuing till he kills Sinwar, until he occupies Gaza, and now he’s done all of that. But he continues the war and even expanding it. So in my opinion, that will ensure that Netanyahu has no reason whatsoever to continue this war. On the other hand, I think what happened today will not change much for Hamas or for the Palestinian side because Sinwar is not the first leader who’s assassinated. Haniyeh before him was assassinated. Nasrallah was assassinated. And this never changes the determination of the Palestinian people to struggle for their freedom.

Matt Frei: But we are also getting reports from inside the Gaza Strip, credible reports, that many people, including some Hamas fighters, are celebrating his death, albeit behind closed doors.

Mustafa Barghouti: I doubt that very much. I would not believe such reports. Probably they are coming from Israeli sources or sources that are loyal to Israel.

Matt Frei: They’re not, actually, they’re from Palestinian sources.

Mustafa Barghouti: Maybe, but I think that does not represent the opinion of the majority. The people of Palestine will see him now as a hero. He was not hiding in tunnels as Israel has claimed. Actually, the one who’s hiding in tunnels during his meetings is Netanyahu, not Sinwar. He was fighting and he was killed in a fight with the Israeli army. And he was dressed in a fighting outfit, so he wasn’t a coward.

This man spent 22 years in prison. His main goal was to release the Palestinian prisoners in every possible way. And I don’t think the Palestinian people will look at him in any other way, but as a hero, the struggle for the freedom of his people.

Matt Frei: And yet it is inescapable that if he had not masterminded the attacks of October the 7th, which killed 1,200 Israelis, then Gaza would not have lived through the hell that it has been living through for the last year.

Mustafa Barghouti: Gaza was in hell before the 7th of October.

Matt Frei: But not like this.

Mustafa Barghouti: You mentioned 1,200 Israelis killed. But you didn’t say that Israel killed 52,000 Palestinians. [00:02:42][6.6]

Matt Frei: We mentioned that all the time. But the point is, I don’t think you can argue with the idea that if it hadn’t been for October the 7th, the Israeli reprisals, brutal as they have been, would just not have taken place.

Mustafa Barghouti: Of course I will argue, because 7th of October was not the beginning of the story. Since 67, Israel imprisoned more than one million Palestinians. We are under oppression. And that’s why 7th of October happened. You could ask the question in a different way, I suppose, which is, if Israel ended its occupation, would we have had this war? Of course not.

Matt Frei: In the last month, they have killed the head of Hamas, the political head of Hamas, the head of Hezbollah. I mean, militarily, Israel is picking off one enemy after another. Does that weaken the resistance to Israel significantly?

Mustafa Barghouti: On the contrary, it makes people believe that Israel understands only the language of force and it makes more people, especially young people, determined to struggle for their freedom. Because what does Israel offer to people after killing the leaders? Nothing but occupation. And that’s something people cannot tolerate.

Matt Frei: What is your appeal to the Israeli prime minister tonight?

Mustafa Barghouti: I don’t appeal to Mr Netanyahu because I don’t trust him at all. I think this man is behaving as a fascist leader. But I appeal to the Israeli public. It’s time to stop this terrible genocide. It’s time to stop this war, for the sake not only of Palestinians, but also for Israelis.

Matt Frei: Just finally, what do you think will happen now to the Israeli prisoners? They call them hostages in Gaza?

Mustafa Barghouti: I hope, as I said, Hamas will not disappear because one leader was killed while he was fighting. I think there are other leaders that will take his place. And the matter is in the hands of Netanyahu. If he wants them safe – and I do not think he cares about them, by the way – but if he wants them safe, he can immediately engage through negotiations to achieve ceasefire and then exchange of prisoners and then they can come home safe. This whole dilemma could have been easily avoided had Netanyahu accepted a ceasefire in the first months of this war.