Is peace possible with Netanyahu in Israel and Hamas in Gaza?

The suffering in Gaza makes the need for a ceasefire ever more urgent. One of the most important players in any lasting peace in the Middle East is Saudi Arabia.

The Kingdom seemed to be moving towards normalisation with Israel before the October the 7th attacks – and has faced criticism in some quarters for not having taken a more robust stance against the war.

Prince Turki Al-Faisal served as head of the country’s intelligence service for two decades, and as ambassador to the US and UK.

He spoke to Krishnan Guru-Murthy in London at the Chatham House thinktank.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: If you were still ambassador here, what would you be trying to get the British government to do about Israel-Gaza.

Turki Al-Faisal: The efforts of the government now are welcome. But they’re a bit shy. I think they can do more in stoppage of military support and other such considerations to the Israelis, but they can also come forward and recognise the Palestinian state. As you know, there’s been a parliamentary resolution on that, many years ago, on recognising Palestine as a state, which has not been implemented by governments in the UK.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Saudi Arabia is no friend of Hamas and you have condemned Hamas. But how do you deal with Hamas? How do you get Hamas out of the picture?

Turki Al-Faisal: Two propositions. I think if there is going to be a ceasefire agreement based on a United Nations Security Council resolution, it has to be a United Nations Security Council resolution, there should be a stipulation in that Security Council resolution that those who do not accept a two-state solution for Palestine and Israel are not allowed to be participants in any peace in the future. And that definitely will exclude Netanyahu because he’s already declared his opposition to a Palestinian state, and any Hamas leader who does not recognise the two-state solution as the present leadership in Hamas does not. The other way, of course, is that the people in Gaza, if they see that there is hope for an end to the killing, that they will turn on Hamas.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: A lot of people wonder why Saudi Arabia is not taking a more muscular position over this. In 1973, there was an oil embargo against western states who supported Israel. Why does Saudi Arabia not do more like that?

Turki Al-Faisal: Well, you know, imposing an oil embargo on whoever these days is not going to work. There is a glut of oil in the world, and the producers of oil since 1973 have expanded considerably so that, as a tool, it is not going to work nowadays. But when you mean robust, what do you mean by robust? Do you mean that Saudi Arabia should declare war on Israel, or should declare war on the United States and UK for supporting Israel? That not only would be foolish, but it will expand the conflict rather than limiting it.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Do you still think normalisation of relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel is realistic?

Turki Al-Faisal: Under the present circumstances, with Mr Netanyahu and his government saying that they are not going to recognise a Palestinian state, the kingdom is not going to recognise Israel. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a prerequisite for any normalisation. Not just between Saudi Arabia and Israel, but other countries as well that still don’t recognise Israel.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: You say you want a UN resolution. How do you get there? How important is the American election and the outcome of the election?

Turki Al-Faisal: Of course, it’s very important. It’s very important. And it has to come from an American-led effort. And that’s why the kingdom has been maintaining contacts with America, not only during Mr Biden’s time, but even before.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: But you think President Biden is the most pro-Israeli president there has been in a long time. So would you rather see President Trump back?

Turki Al-Faisal: For me, whoever is elected by the American people, we will have to deal with. We’ve dealt with both.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Vice President Harris, though, has been very critical of Saudi Arabia when she said she wanted to hold the kingdom to account for the killing of Jamal Khashoggi. She’s said there should be no weapons sales. Would she become an obstacle, do you think?

Turki Al-Faisal: What she has said since she will become the nominee to succeed Mr Biden is that she will pursue Biden’s policy. You’ve seen her statements on Palestine, for example. They’re very much Biden-esque if I can describe them that way, and even more so showing her sympathy to the Palestinian people and so on. So we’ll have to wait and see.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: On that question, both in the United States and in Britain, do you think time is the healer, if you like, in this relationship? Because politicians in both countries still talk about what happened to Khashoggi and the killing. Does it just go away with time or will people leave it alone?

Turki Al-Faisal: Those issues, they work both ways. And we have issues with American conduct, for example, in Iraq. We have issues with American conduct in support of Israel, UK support for Israel. And yet on both sides, we’ve seen Americans and the British come along, and the relationship today, I would say, with both countries is much stronger than it was a few years ago.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: It’s at least partly economic, isn’t it? I just wanted to end with just a sense of your economic vision of Saudi Arabia. What would you see Saudi Arabia as being like in, say, ten years’ time and its relationship with Europe? Do you see it as a place that Europeans will go and travel to a lot, do a lot of business with, go on holiday there? What kind of country will it be, what kind of relationship will we have?

Turki Al-Faisal: That is already happening. I think last year, we received something like over 20 million visitors from all over the world.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: How important is sport? Because that’s clearly where you’re very engaged. Some people say it’s sportswashing. What is it?

Turki Al-Faisal: Which country doesn’t do sportswashing? When the Olympics were held in your country, when was it, 2012? You pretty much washed the United Kingdom very, very lavishly. So sportswashing is not unique to Saudi Arabia. Every country aspires to have a good image wherever it has contact with others.