Israel military objective ‘not to kill civilians’, says former Mossad head of research

Sima Shine was the head of research and analysis for the Israeli intelligence agency Mossad from 2003 to 2007, and is now the head of the Iran programme at the Institute for National Security Studies in Tel Aviv.

Ciaran Jenkins: 274 killed by Israeli airstrikes in Lebanon in a day. 21 children. What military objective would Israel cite for these actions?

Sima Shine: I must say it’s a strange question to start it from today. I would start it from the 8th of October when Hezbollah decided to attack Israel with no reason, just to support Hamas,that attacked Israel one day before. So we are in a war that Hezbollah decided a year ago, almost a year ago, to launch on Israel. Every day they are launching UAVs, missiles or rockets. Houses are barren. People are killed. 12 children, those children in Majdal Shams that were playing football were killed. So we should start your question from the context and the context is…

Ciaran Jenkins: Ms Shine, we’re talking about today because it happened today. 21 children died today. I’m just wondering, what is the military objective that Israel is trying to achieve?

Sima Shine: The military objective is not to kill children and not to kill women and not to kill civilians. And therefore, the spokesman of the military is come out two hours before and urged all Lebanese – they do know that they have, either in their houses or close to their houses, ammunition or rockets and missiles of Hezbollah – to leave their houses, two hours before the attack, in Arabic. And also, there was an interception into their radio programme in Lebanon in order to tell people to leave their houses if they know that there are arms there. If you looked on the pictures, you could see.

Ciaran Jenkins: Israel would like its 65,000 residents to return to the north of Israel. How does this action make that more likely or does it not just invite a retaliation and an escalation?

Sima Shine: It might escalate the situation, no question about it. But we are a year that all these people, much more than 65,000 that are out of their houses. Some of them will not be able to go back because their houses were burned. But the only way, because Hezbollah decided that they will not stop the war until the war in Israel doesn’t leave Gaza. I don’t know what is the connection. That’s Lebanon. That’s Gaza. Lebanon is a state that was kidnapped by Hezbollah. And therefore, there is no other reason, no other way to bring our people back to their houses if Hezbollah will continue the war. The only way that Hezbollah for a year will understand that it cannot do it, is by suffering the same thing. We will not stop.

Ciaran Jenkins: They tried this in 2006, didn’t they, and it didn’t work then. I just wonder why you think it would work now. And also…

Sima Shine: I really think it worked in 2006. Nasrallah came out and said that if he would know what would be the result, he would not kidnap the Israeli soldiers in 2006. And 17 years since 2006, there were no fighting on the border. So it worked in 2006. And unfortunately, that’s probably the only way. Neither Israel, no one in Israel, wants a war. But at the end of the day, this is the only way to bring our people back to their home.

Ciaran Jenkins: I’m sorry to interrupt, Ms Shine. I’m very sorry to interrupt. We don’t have very much time and you’re an Iran expert in terms of the Israeli side of things. And I wanted to ask you, Iran has said Israel is trying to goad it into a regional conflict. How do these actions help in terms of containing Iran?

Sima Shine: Iran has built Hezbollah, and they will have to decide if they want to stop the war and to bring, enable us to bring back our people or they want to continue. At the end of the day, consultations between Iran and Hezbollah are every day, and they will have to decide what is the best way to do it. At the end of the day, we are fighting on seven fronts. Iraq, Yemen, Houthis. Your country is part of the coalition in the Red Sea that the Houthis decided also to fight because Iran is supporting them with missiles. So what do you want Israel to do? I mean, are we going to sit and pray to God to help us?