Mohammed Emwazi: MI5 tried to put words in my mouth

The advocacy group Cage has released an audio recording it made when Emwazi first came to them for advice in the summer of 2009.

The computer science graduate had just been denied entry to Tanzania with two friends, on what they said was a safari holiday. He tells Cage about how he was questioned by an MI5 officer calling himself Nick.

“He started asking me about 7/7 and 9/11… I told him this is a wrong thing. What happened was wrong. What do you want me to say? If I had the opportunity for those lives to come back then I would make those lives come back.”

‘Radicalisation’

We now know that this was one of many encounters Emwazi had with the intelligence services. Cage has claimed they contributed to his radicalisation.

However, it is clear from the questioning that MI5 was already investigating his network of contacts and had reason to question his motives for going to Tanzania. Emwazi said the agent “threatened him”, saying: “We are going to keep a close eye on you, Mohammed, and we already have been… We are going to keep a close eye on you.”

The tape appears to confirm that the authorities believed Emwazi was already moving towards radicalisation before he was picked up. MI5 had him on their radar – the question for they are now facing is why he would later slip off it.

Emwazi tape transcript

While we were interviewing after... right at the end, he [Nick, the MI5 agent] said: "I would like to ask you some serious questions now, and while I'm packing my pack... This is while I'm packing some of my stuff..." I said to him: "Yeah, go on, ask it." He said: "No, no, I'd like to sit face to face and ask you these questions." I said: "Wow, these must be some serious questions. Now let's get down to it." I left the stuff, I come back, sat down, looked at him...

And then he looked at me, he said: "Mohammed, what do you think of 7/7?" I said: "Innocent people have been… have died. What do you think? I think this is extremism." He said: "OK, what do you think of the war in Afghanistan?" I said: "What do I think? We see the news and innocent people are getting killed."

He started telling me: "What do you think of 9/11?" I told him: "This is a wrong thing. What happened was wrong. What do you want me to say? If I had the opportunity for those lives to come back then I would make those lives come back. I don't think... I think what happened is wrong."

Then he is asking me: "What do you think of the Jews," just like... I told him: "They're a religion, everyone has got his right to his own beliefs. I can't... I don't force no-one." 

So he just tries... he wants to know about my background, about my, about, about my creed... Islam. I told him: "This is how Islam is..." I told him we don't force anyone to come into religion, you know. Everyone has got their own right..." I told him anything that has been happening is extremely... anything like bombs or whatever is all from extremists.

And then, so after all of this he come back and he looked at me and said: "I still believe you are going to Somalia to train." I said: "After what I just told you... After that I told you what's happening is extremism this and that, and you are still suggesting I am an extremist."

He just started going on, forcing... trying to put words into my mouth and saying: "No, you are doing this, this, this and we are going to keep a close eye on you, Mohammed, and we already have been... We are going to keep a close eye on you..." Threatening, you know, and just went out.