‘Time to leave is now’ – PM tells British nationals in Lebanon

At the UN in midtown Manhattan, the US and France are reported to be leading a new diplomatic effort to end hostilities in both Gaza and Lebanon.

Sir Keir Starmer flew in very late last night and issued his own plea for an end to the violence, as he addressed the Security Council. He’s also urged Britons to leave Lebanon immediately.

Gary Gibbon: When I caught up with Keir Starmer in New York, I started by asking him about how concerned he was at the situation in Lebanon.

Keir Starmer: I’m very worried about the escalation [in Lebanon] and calling for all parties to step back from the brink to de-escalate. We need a ceasefire so this can be sorted out diplomatically. But I’ve a very important message for British nationals in Lebanon, which is: the time to leave is now. The contingency plans are being ramped up, but don’t wait for those. There are still commercial flights. It’s very important that they hear my message, which is to leave and to leave immediately.

Gary Gibbon: Do you think Benjamin Netanyahu has any idea where this ends? Any notion of that?

Keir Starmer: I am concerned about the escalation in Lebanon. It’s very close to the brink now. And I think all parties need to pull back. There needs to be a ceasefire, because in the end this is only going to be solved by political means. So this is the time, clearly the time, for de-escalation.

Gary Gibbon: But Netanyahu, do you think he has any idea where it ends?

Keir Starmer: Well, he will have his own objectives, but looking at it from where I’m looking at it, I’m very concerned about the escalation.

Gary Gibbon: You could have on your desk, quite soon, a request from the International Criminal Court to support an arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu. What would you do if it landed there?

Keir Starmer: The court hasn’t come to a decision yet.

Gary Gibbon: So you don’t rule out supporting?

Keir Starmer: I’m not going to speculate. Look, no decision has been made. It’s a matter, obviously, for the court. So I’m not going to get ahead of that and speculate. The court will take its decision in due course.

Gary Gibbon: You’ve come here straight from Liverpool through your party conference, and at that conference they’ve just defeated the measures you put forward on the winter fuel allowance, whipping it away from millions of people. Presumably it’s full steam ahead despite that?

Keir Starmer: Firstly, I do understand how colleagues in the Labour movement feel about this. This is clearly a difficult decision, but a motion at conference doesn’t dictate government policy. It’s a difficult decision taken because the last government left the £22 billion black hole…

Gary Gibbon: I wanted to ask you about that…

Keir Starmer: We’ve had to take a tough decision.

Gary Gibbon: You’ll have been looking at a whole list of options that you can take in order to fill that black hole. But you chose this one. And that puzzles a lot of people who are trying to understand what you as prime minister, what your government’s, going to be like. And they’re wondering, because if there was full take-up of pensioner credit, it would save no money whatsoever. It’ll save quite a bit less than has been advertised because there will be at least some additional take-up of pensioner credit. Some people think it was a sort of sacrificial lamb to try and assuage concerns that the Labour Party splashes the cash and that’s why it was out there for so long as an identifying policy. The biggest, boldest, new, unexpected policy we associate your government with.

Keir Starmer: Let me take that head on, because I do think it’s an important point and challenge to put to me. The first thing is, £22 billion is a huge amount of money to find in one year. This is the black hole. The money they left off the books, didn’t declare to the country. That has to be done and it has to be done this year. So there’s no easy choice within that. I’m acutely aware…

Gary Gibbon: But this one, you talked about it at length yesterday, this specific one, the motive…

Keir Starmer: So there’s no easy choices. I don’t think for public services we can take more money out of them. They’re already on their knees. So it’s difficult choices. But the purpose behind this, the reason that we’ve done this, is to stabilise the economy.

Gary Gibbon: Let me ask another question and to try and understand your government. Is there more scope to borrow to invest than maybe you thought when you were campaigning in the election? Because it wasn’t one of your messages in the election, but it sounded from Rachel Reeves’ speech as though you have discovered, if not a magic wand, maybe a conjuring trick.

Keir Starmer: Firstly, I think it’s important to distinguish day-to-day spend, which is the year-to-year spend and balance, which the £22 billion is part of. And then the longer term point you put to me about borrow to invest…

Gary Gibbon: And you might have found the trick?

Keir Starmer: Look, I’m not going to get ahead of the budget, but I’ve always long believed in borrowing to invest. I think it’s important to grow the economy…

Gary Gibbon: So you might be borrowing more than you said in the election?

Keir Starmer: Our number one mission is to grow the economy, to make sure that by growing the economy, everybody is better off, living standards go up. That’s what I’m going to be judged on at the end of this term in government and I know that. Therefore, we look to measures to grow the economy.

Gary Gibbon: Can I ask you another one about how you run things? You spoke to Channel 4 News during the election about how you ran the CPS. You were sort of presiding chairman there, in terms of day-to-day organisation there was the chief executive who actually ran the organisation. Is government a bit like that at the moment? Because some of your colleagues are wondering is it actually being run by Sue Gray, is it being run by the Treasury, is that your template?

Keir Starmer: The way we do it is, as you would expect, through strong cabinet decisions. I’ll openly admit the chancellor and I are very close. We think together, we have got a shared strategy and approach, and therefore the fact that there’s nothing between the chancellor and the prime minister shouldn’t become a surprise. That’s how we’ve been operating for a number of years. It is a very good thing for the country, by the way. We’ve had plenty of examples of chancellors going in one direction, prime ministers going in another. It usually ends pretty sadly.

Gary Gibbon: Some people in your cabinet aren’t sure what we’re saying is a very good thing at the moment, they’re a bit worried. They think this government isn’t functioning properly and something’s not right. And that’s why I ask you about who’s really running the show.

Keir Starmer: I think it is a very good thing that the chancellor and the prime minister are in lockstep…

Gary Gibbon: Sue Gray was the other part of my question.

Keir Starmer: The chancellor and the prime minister making the key decisions in relation to the budget, as you would expect. But nobody’s hiding this. We are close. We think alike. The strategy for winning the election was a shared strategy, and the strategy for driving economic growth is a shared strategy. It is a good thing to have a prime minister and chancellor who think alike, lockstep, working together.

Gary Gibbon: You’ve spoken a lot about the whole issue about freebies and clothes, maybe later than some people in your own party would have liked, but you’ve said what you said. But I wanted to ask you just one other question about that. When party donors, people who wish the party well, want to give money to the party, the conventional route is to give it to the party, not lean over and stuff a few thousand pounds in the top pocket of people who are about to be cabinet ministers. I mean, that’s a great way of making sure that your phone calls are always answered. Did alarm bells ring, when Waheed Alli chose that approach, in your head?

Keir Starmer: I think your characterisation isn’t entirely accurate.

Gary Gibbon: It’s odd though, isn’t it?

Keir Starmer: People donate in different ways. Sometimes they give to the party itself, sometimes they give it to a particular member of parliament….

Gary Gibbon: But this is a bit rum, this way is a bit rum, isn’t it?

Keir Starmer: Sometimes they give it to a cabinet member. Sometimes it’s for support in a particular office. It can be for any number of things. The important thing is that it’s declared. And yes, there were plenty of people before the election who desperately wanted a Labour government and wanted to donate towards that end and that was their driving motivation. And of course, you know, we have secured now a mandate for change. And you know, I go to work every day to get on with the work of change.