Tories must show ‘humility’, says Shadow Chancellor Hunt

We were joined by Jeremy Hunt, who was Chancellor of the Exchequer until July, and is now the Shadow Chancellor.

Cathy Newman: Jeremy Hunt, you were, of course, also foreign secretary. So I want to start by asking you about what’s going on in Lebanon. Are you worried? The UK is an ally of Israel. Are you worried that Netanyahu is dragging the UK potentially into a Middle East war?

Jeremy Hunt: Well, we should all worry about what is happening. Every foreign secretary arrives in office saying, I’m going to focus on America, on China, on the EU, and not really wanting to think about the Middle East. And then it comes up and bites you on the ankle. I probably spent about half my time thinking about Middle East issues. And so it has this ability, it sits in this region and it sucks everyone else in. I think we should all be very worried. Look, as far as what Israel did, I don’t condemn it. I actually think that they do have a right to self-defence and they were being attacked by Hezbollah. I haven’t agreed with everything that Israel has done in Gaza, but I think on this occasion they do have that right to self-defence. But we just have to be very, very careful now.

Cathy Newman: But a thousand people have died in the last couple of weeks.

Jeremy Hunt: Yes, but you know, we have to remember that Israel is surrounded by organisations that do not recognise its right to exist. So that creates a mentality that is very difficult for us to understand. And, I think we have to be a critical friend of Israel. We don’t have to sign up to everything they do. But on this occasion I do accept that need for self-defence.

Cathy Newman: None of this is being discussed here. There’s not even a debate on foreign affairs on the main stage. I mean, just to give you an example of the kind of way in which you’re looking inward, the last prime minister, one of the last Tory prime ministers, Liz Truss, is saying that the party would have done better under her than under Rishi Sunak. Is she in denial? Is she delusional?

Jeremy Hunt: Well, I didn’t agree with the mini budget and in fact, with her authority, I reversed nearly all of it. So I think that is all ancient history. We’re a political party. We were trounced at the election. We have to have some humility now and we have to recognise that as the country falls out of love with Labour, which I think they’re starting to do quite quickly actually, they are not automatically going to come back to us.

Cathy Newman: So you’d like to see a bit more humility from Liz Truss, would you?

Jeremy Hunt: I think, as a party, we have to show humility in understanding that we lost the trust of the people in the electorate – in the election – and we now have to earn it back.

Cathy Newman: Did you see any humility from Liz Truss today?

Jeremy Hunt: Look, I’m not going to comment about Liz Truss. What I will say is I think you have four candidates who in different ways are all trying to answer that question as to how we win back that trust.

Cathy Newman: You are saying let’s look to the future and not hark on about the past. But I mean, there’s plenty of people here who want to bring back Boris Johnson, not least Liz Truss, and Grant Shapps has told me the same thing. What would that say to the country about how you’ve recognised, or taken in, that defeat that the country inflicted on you?

Jeremy Hunt: I think the way that you win elections is by being better connected to voters than your opponents. And the reason that we lost is that lots of people were worried that things in the country just weren’t working. Whether it was the NHS or the roads, or whatever. And they came to see the Conservative Party as part of the problem, not part of the solution.

Cathy Newman: And Boris Johnson isn’t the solution?

Jeremy Hunt: I think the way you win… I’m not going to answer that question directly. I’ll just say this – the way you win an election is by showing that you have better solutions to the problems people face, than the government in office. What I will say is I am worried that – 12 weeks into a new government – where are these solutions? I’m not hearing from Labour what they are going to do with the NHS. How are they going to grow the economy? I think that is the worry that people are beginning to have, is whether they actually do have a solution or whether they’re just going to continue talking about their opponents.

Cathy Newman: So let me ask you then, on your patch, because the current chancellor who succeeded you, said that you left her a £22 billion black hole. You told the conference here that that was a lie. Now, she told the Commons that you had overspent on the asylum system to the tune of £6.4 billion – £1.6 billion overspend on the transport budget. There wasn’t enough said in reserve for the military action in Ukraine. Did she speak the truth there or did she mislead the house?

Jeremy Hunt: Well, what she said was a fabrication. You don’t need to take my word for it. You just read this week’s Economist, Cathy, and they’re saying that she will potentially have a £39 billion surplus, not a deficit, a 39 billion surplus.

Cathy Newman: But you think she misled the house then, if it was a fabrication?

Jeremy Hunt: Okay. Look at – what did the Financial Times say? They actually did the freedom of information on that £22 billion, asking what the workings were for it.

Cathy Newman: I’m talking about what she said to the house.

Jeremy Hunt: Of course, I don’t agree with it, it was a fabrication.

Cathy Newman: That’s different from saying, ‘ah that’s a fabrication’. She misled the house.

Jeremy Hunt: It was a fabrication. But I’m not going to get into this business of one politician calling another politician a liar, because that’s not my kind of politics. But what I will say is that what she said was wrong. And if you are going to earn people’s trust as chancellor, you need to base your argument on the truth. And she has not been doing that.