‘Trump will try to prosecute his political adversaries’ says former ACLU legal director

David Cole is a former National Legal Director of the American Civil Liberties Union and is now Professor of Law at Georgetown University.

He has litigated numerous cases in the Supreme Court.

Ayshah Tull: Lots of chat about Matt Gaetz. What do you think he is appointed to do as attorney general? Why has Trump picked him?

David Cole: He certainly hasn’t picked him because he’s qualified to do the job. He’s barely practised law. He’s never prosecuted anybody. He’s never run anything other than a political campaign. He was picked to do Trump’s bidding. But what Trump has done is put somebody at the top, or try to put somebody at the top of the law enforcement apparatus in this country overseeing 115,000 employees in the Justice Department, who is hardly beyond reproach, who is subject to credible allegations of sexual misconduct, drug use, illegal use of campaign contributions, illegal use of state identification records. And I think that’s all going to come out. And I think it’s going to be tough going for this man to be confirmed, even in a Senate that is controlled by Republicans.

Ayshah Tull: Let’s go into the realms of possibility, though, if he is confirmed. How much power would he have as attorney general? What would this mean for the cases pending against Trump? Do they all just go away?

David Cole: The cases pending against Trump will go away no matter who heads up the Justice Department. That’s ultimately the decision of the executive branch. And I think nobody expects the cases to continue, the federal cases, to continue against Trump. But what Trump has said he wants to do is not just end his cases, but launch new cases in retaliation against his enemies, anyone who spoke out against him, and any lawyer worth his salt, anyone with any kind of credibility, would stand up to that and reject those efforts, as did Justice Department employees under Trump in the first administration. Matt Gaetz won’t. That’s why they picked Matt Gaetz.

Ayshah Tull: And just throughout his rallies, he’s spoken about revenge. Last year, he kind of said, well, he did say, I will appoint a real special prosecutor to go after the corrupt president in the history of the United States, Joe Biden, and the entire Biden crime family. Will Biden be in the dock?

David Cole: I think Biden has the advantage of the decision that Trump won in the Supreme Court, saying you can’t prosecute a former president for official acts. So it’ll be tough to prosecute Biden. But I think Trump will try to prosecute a lot of folks who were simply his political adversaries, who engaged in no criminal conduct. And he’s trying to line up the Justice Department not to do justice, but to do his bidding. That’s not the way it’s supposed to be. I’m hopeful that the Senate will stand up to that. This guy Matt Gaetz is not popular.

Ayshah Tull: How hopeful are you, just because the Supreme Court, we’ve just said, has a conservative super majority. He’s got the House. He’s got the Senate. You know, there’s meant to be good old checks and balances in the United States of America. Will he have those checks and balances this time?

David Cole: I think, broadly speaking, he’ll have those checks and balances, if there’s a strong upsurge of opposition and resistance, as there was last time. Yes, he has a majority in both houses, but he had that last time. Yes, he has a majority on the Supreme Court, but he had that last time. And nonetheless, the Supreme Court stood up to him. Congress stood up to him when he tried to repeal Obamacare. The Justice Department stood up to him when he tried to prosecute his enemies. The courts stood up to him when he tried to challenge on fraudulent grounds the results of the election. So I very much hope that our system will survive, but it’s going to be a serious challenge.

Ayshah Tull: But the difference is this time is that a lot of those elements have been made in his own image. The Republican Party is now Donald Trump Incorporated, essentially.

David Cole: I think that’s that’s largely true. But he has very slim majorities in both houses. So the most moderate elements of the Republican Party will have tremendous amount of control, just as the most moderate elements in the Democratic Party frustrated Biden on many occasions. That may well happen again with with President Trump. It depends on how far he goes, but thus far, the kinds of people he has nominated, totally unqualified people, to lead some of the most important jobs in this country. I think he’s undermining his legitimacy even with his supporters. And I’m hopeful that some of them will have the backbone to stand up to him and to stand up for the rule of law and the constitution, but only time will tell.