‘We need to keep people safe this winter’, says Labour MP critical of winter fuel cuts

We spoke to Rachael Maskell who is a Labour MP who has led criticism of the planned cuts and says she plans to abstain.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Are you convinced or are you still planning to oppose the government on this?

Rachael Maskell: Good evening. What’s really important is that we protect older people this winter and ensure that they don’t go cold in their homes, whilst obviously understanding the difficult decisions the Chancellor has to make. What we also need to see is that mitigation to protect older people. We haven’t got these measures in place yet, and I want to work with government to ensure that we can achieve that objective to safeguard older people from the risk of heart attack, stroke or hypothermia this winter and therefore working with governments, it’s going to be really important over the coming weeks.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: Right, but the government has no intention of working with you has it? I mean, it’s been very clear that it’s not putting in mitigation. It’s not planning to cushion this blow.

Rachael Maskell: At the moment, we haven’t got mitigation measures and I have to say I’m disappointed about that. But tomorrow is just a vote. After that we still have got people who have got those energy bills coming through their letterboxes. The 1st of October, we’re seeing that 10% rise in energy, and we know that there’s around 1.6 million pensioners who remain fuel-poor. They are going to be looking to government to support them – and I’m determined that we continue those discussions with government to protect those people who are most vulnerable and frail this winter.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So how are you going to vote tomorrow?

Rachael Maskell: I’m going to abstain tomorrow because I want to continue to work with government. Clearly, government has only been there for eight weeks, but we need to bring that mitigation in.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: So it’s not worth losing the whip over? I mean, if you voted against it, you’d risk no longer being a Labour MP and not being able to work with the government.

Rachael Maskell: Well, I think it’s really important. I’m here and I want to make the greatest difference to support people in my community and across the country. Therefore, I want to work with the Labour government – I’m Labour through and through – to ensure that we are able to get that mitigation in place to keep people safe and well this winter. So of course I want to continue those discussions. I’ve had some fruitful discussions to date, but obviously there’s been no measures forthcoming. I’ve been talking about things like social tariff – even social prescribing – as Scottish Power are doing in Scotland. We need to look at that pilot to see whether or not that will protect people this winter.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: What do you say to those people who say, look, pensioners are getting £900 more than they were a year ago – the pension’s going up again by £400 next year – and there are some very rich pensioners who get the winter fuel allowance, who live in million-pound houses and still have incomes. Why should they get it?

Rachael Maskell: Well, it’s absolutely clear that many people in receipt of Winter Fuel Payments don’t need it. There are people overseas living in warmer climates that are getting it. So of course there’s got to be reform. I support reform, but it’s what that reform looks like to protect those people who are really living hand-to-mouth or have got those few pennies put aside – people that worked hard all their lives – need the protection of the state, and they’re the people I’m speaking up for.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: But if you are living hand-to-mouth, you are eligible for Pension Credit, so you will get the Winter Fuel Allowance. You shouldn’t be living in such desperate straits and not claiming Pension Credit.

Rachael Maskell: Well, we’ve got to look at what’s happening. In my constituency, it’s the housing market which is really skewing people’s disposable income. I mean, although they had the rise in the triple lock pension, £902 this year, the average rent went up 11.9%. People had to pay £382 more rent for an average household this year, than they did, on top of the Pension credit. So obviously pensioners are struggling because of a number of factors that we’ve inherited. There’s a whole country we need to reform. But obviously, we need to keep people safe this winter and that’s what I want to do – is to continue those discussions with ministers to ensure that we can achieve that and keep people safe.

Krishnan Guru-Murthy: But there are maybe a million people who are eligible for Pension Credit who aren’t claiming it at the moment. And if they do, then they will get the Winter Fuel Allowance. If they all register and the government concentrates on that, would that salve your deepest worries?

Rachael Maskell: Well, there are 880,000 people not claiming Pension Credit who are eligible and what we’ve got to do is make sure that they are signed up to Pension Credit. And I admire the work that Liz Kendall is doing to really drive that policy forward. But 37% of people don’t claim it at the moment. There are reasons for that. Some have dementia. For some, this is all too much. We’ve got to put that support in as well. But there’s about a million people who are above that cliff edge threshold and we need to protect them too. So obviously looking at that whole piece around how we can keep people warm this winter is really important. No one should go cold in a developed country like ours. There are lots of people getting Pension Credit who, quite frankly, don’t need it. So we’ve got to look at redistribution and to protect the poorest in our society. That’s what I want to see achieved from these discussions.