“We will go back to considerably worse than normal”: Peter Hitchens and Joan Bakewell debate the government lockdown response

The Chancellor Rishi Sunak has denied the UK’s strategy is about a choice between the health of the public and the health of the economy. But some older people fear they could be relegated to second class citizens – in the effort to get the country back to some degree of normality.

We speak to the broadcaster and Labour peer Joan Bakewell and the journalist Peter Hitchens – and begin by asking Mr Hitchens why he thought the lockdown was too draconian.