Celia Sawyer interview

15 March 2012

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Four Rooms is the gripping series in which people who believe they have a valuable artefact get a chance to sell it to four of the country's leading dealers. It is frequently unbearably tense, as well as funny, fascinating and full of surprises. In the last series, items for sale included a mummified mermaid, a Dalek, a Banksy mural, a Victorian hangman's rope, Concorde's nose cone, a life-size mechanical baby elephant, and some remarkable celebrity memorabilia.

This series sees a new dealer, Celia Sawyer, joining the show, bringing with her an unmistakeable touch of glamour. Here, she talks tactics, the thrill of the deal, and reveals some of the more unusual items from the new series.

 

What's your background? How did you get into the business?
I'm basically an interior designer - I've been working in the business for round about seven years. My clients are high net worth clients, varying from celebrities to sporting personalities to business people. And some of them have very diverse collections, so I started looking around for pieces for them, that they could have in their schemes or as part of their private collections. So that's how I started, and here I am.

 

Do you have any specific areas of expertise?
It's more of a general overview, to be honest, because they collect all sorts. Not that I'm an expert at everything, because that's impossible. But I've helped people with everything from World War I memorabilia to vintage jewellery to artwork. It varies across the board, which makes it interesting, but it's a lot to learn.

 

Did you watch the first series of Four Rooms?
Yes. I didn't watch it all, but I watched most of it, yeah.

 

Was there anything that really caught your eye and made you think "I'd love to have had a piece of that"?
Yes. I liked the Banksy, funnily enough. I'm not sure what I would have paid for it. [The vendors turned down £240,000].

 

What are the relationships like between the dealers on the programme?
They're quite competitive. There's a lot of joking going on, but there's also some underlying truth in some of the little comments that fly about. So everyone's smiling most of the time, but it can get a little bit serious and a little bit heated at times. If someone's going for something, and you know that you want it, you think to yourself "There's going to be a fight for this one".

 

Are you ever tempted to press your ear up against the door and listen to what's going on elsewhere?
Would I do that? No, of course not. It would ruin it for me. But yes, of course I'm tempted. Everybody's tempted. Hearing something important would be a big help, but unfortunately it doesn't happen.

 

Is there a lot of sitting around waiting while the sellers visit the other dealers?
The way the programme's filmed, there's a lot of sitting around waiting anyway - the presenter can be talking to sellers, we don't know how long that's taking, so you don't really know what's going on most of the time. Which means you really don't have a clue whether you're the first dealer being visited or the fourth. And you never know how long a seller will spend in each room - they might be in and out very quickly, or the might be in there for ages.

 

For a seller, what is the best tactic? Is it to visit the person they think is the most interested first, or should they leave them until last?
I, personally, would leave the one I thought was most interested until the end, because I'd be thinking that they were going to pay the most money. But it's not always true, of course, as you'll see on the programme. People do different things. Sometimes I've tried to convince people to come to me first, before any of the other dealers get a chance to slip in to one of the things that I want. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it really goes against you, because then they know you're interested, so they keep you until the end, and then one of the other dealers slips in the deal. That's the trouble. If it was me, I'd leave the most interested until the end.

 

How much research do you get to do on each item? Can you look into the market for these things?
We don't get much time. We have a little bit of time just to quickly look up a few things and phone a friend - we may want to find a buyer quickly - but we don't get a lot of time at all. You have to have a good background of knowledge in most of these areas. But you can't know about all of it - you have to pick things up quite quickly.

 

Do you get a real buzz from doing a deal?
Yeah, absolutely. And I don't do any duffers, so it's always a good deal, as far as I'm concerned. Yes, it's exciting.

 

Do you think sellers make the mistake if thinking you're a soft touch, because you're a woman?
Very possibly. I haven't seen how I've come across yet, because I didn't want to look at the screen and see myself, so I don't know whether I've come across as tough or not. I think I am pretty firm though. When we're actually in the bear pit (or the cockpit, as I call it!) they're trying to pitch to us. I think then, because you don't say a great deal at that moment, they might think that I'm a bit of a soft touch, but as soon as they come into my room, they realise that I'm not.

 

Do you ever use your feminine wiles to ease a deal through?
Of course! I'd be silly not to. I can use a bit of feminine charm, if  feel it's going to make a difference, sure.

 

You've finished filming the series - what were some of the weirdest items that came up?
Things like an antique dildo. Oh, and Hitler's toilet was rather strange. It was in a bit of a state as well. They were pretty bizarre.

 

What items from the series excited you most?
Richard Burton's fur coat, which Elizabeth Taylor bought him for his 43rd birthday. That was a great piece. And I really liked a poece of art - it was dollar art, by someone called Scott Campbell. It's absolutely amazing - he's a tattoo artist, and he lasers 3-D images out of stacks of dollar bills.

 

Do you get nervous, dealing with big sums of money?
It's quite nerve-wracking, but you do know instinctively whether or not it's a good deal. As long as you keep your cap on top of what you're prepared to spend, knowing it's still a good deal, you're fine.

 

Have you had your fingers burned with anything you've bought during the series?
No, not at all.

 

Have you already sold all the stuff you bought?
No, I've sold about 50 per cent. One item I'm keeping for myself - I really liked it, and I bought it for myself. I always think it's best to like something that you buy anyway. That way, if you're not able to sell it on straight away, you can enjoy it.

 

Are there any items that you were upset to see slip through your fingers?
Yes, there are, very much so, but I won't say which. You'll have to watch the series.

 

Do those regrets keep you awake at night?
No, it just annoys me for about two or three hours afterwards. Then you just think ‘Maybe tomorrow there'll be something else.'

 

Did you encounter any particularly rude sellers? If so, how did you deal with them?
You know what? I was really prepared to sling them out of the room quite quickly, but nobody really rude came in. There were a few who had very strange ideas on what they thought their pieces were worth, but nobody rude. So unfortunately I didn't get the chance to chuck anybody out.