Phil Spencer Interview

28 September 2011

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The new series is Phil Spencer: Secret Agent. Is this you killing people with paperclips and rescuing hostages?
If only! My son thinks I'm a spy, going off and making a show called Secret Agent. No, it's me going round areas of the country that have a stagnant property market - and there's plenty of those at the moment - and trying to invigorate the market and stimulate it by helping buyers and sellers do deals. It's stripped across the week, and each week will focus on one area. Each programme in that week will focus on one house, although whilst I'm there I also help other sellers and buyers. But there's a main house that I'm trying to sell. So I go in and have a look around and see what I think are the reasons why the house hasn't sold. The owners of the house don't know anything about me. They just know that they're getting a secret agent to help them sell. They then come back to the house, I pop out and walk them round the house suggesting areas that could do with some improvement. I then help them make those improvements , or get people in to help them, and then interview their estate agent and report back to them on what I feel of their price. Once the work is done, we hold an open day for potential buyers to view the house, and I conduct all the viewings, and try to generate interest and offers. I'll also take one set of buyers around a few other local properties on the market, and advise the vendors of those on how to best market their property.

 

Do you have to take a different approach depending upon which region you're in?
Yes. I look into market dynamics in each region, and it often seems to be the case that particular types of properties aren't selling in particular areas. So I've just been filming in Wakefield, where huge amounts of building has been done over the last ten years. If somebody's selling one of those, there are 50 or 60 of them on the market within two or three miles. So in trying to advise the owner of the house, I need to see what else is on the market, and how their house compares to what else is out there.

 

What are the common reasons that come up why properties are failing to sell?
It's a mix actually. There are more issues with presentation than I was expecting. I thought people had watched enough property programmes to know how to present what needs to be done. But I appreciate that if somewhere has been on the market for six months, a year, two years - I've had some places that have been on for three or four years - by the time you've had your 50th viewing, you're pretty bored of it and you're thinking ‘This is never going to happen'. And so the standard of care and thought and preparation drops off. That's happening a lot. I've been to some houses where they've just got up from breakfast and disappeared out.

 

However diplomatic you are, some of the time you're going to have to go into people's homes and criticise them. That must be difficult.
Yes, and it was certainly something I was quite nervous about - going into someone's home, that they love, and explaining the reasons why prospective purchasers aren't loving it. But I'm there to tell them the truth, and sometimes it's a bit brutal. But I haven't had anyone slap me yet. I'm not doing my job unless I'm honest.

 

How much is the current economic climate to blame for the fact that these houses aren't selling?
The climate effects people's ability to borrow money, and there's also a lack of confidence. When people aren't feeling confident, they don't make big decisions. What I have felt, going round the country, is there are still a lot of people that genuinely want to buy and genuinely want to sell. There is interest, it's just that the two sides aren't actually meeting up. That's where the idea for the show came from, the desire to knock a few heads together and get some deals done. And the idea is that, by doing that, those deals will sprout a couple of other deals, and those deals will sprout a couple of other deals, and all of a sudden you've got a more active marketplace in that area.

 

So you're talking about going to an area and making a real difference to the local property market. That's quite ambitious!
Yeah, it is quite ambitious. The plan is, across a week, I will do enough deals to start a ripple of activity in the area.

 

I think it's generally accepted that in the past, mortgages were too easy to come by. Have we gone too far the other way now?
That's a very good question. I would say that yes, we have, because it's proving extremely difficult for anybody to move, particularly first time buyers. Mind you, in the last two weeks there have been better mortgage products around, so it is easing, but it needs to carry on easing. The banks lost a lot of money, and now we're almost paying the penalty. Having said that, the days of the 100 per cent mortgage are well and truly over, and it wouldn't be helpful to see them again.

 

When you go into houses for this series, what do you typically have to tell people to change? Is it as simple as saying ‘Your house has been on the market for three years because you're asking too much for it?
That was something I was expecting to see more of. I was expecting to see better-presented houses, but I was worried about seeing too many overly-ambitious prices. On the whole, prices seem to have been pretty fair. Every case is different, and sometimes people have been wildly ambitious, and they're not getting people through the door. I go round and look at other houses, look at their competition. And I'm able to come back and go ‘Look how beautifully this house is presented, and it's four beds instead of three, and it's end of terrace, and it's just round the corner and it's on for less money than yours. Why would somebody come round and look at yours?' It certainly happens, but by no means in every case.

 

What are the basic rules of presentation for people selling their homes?
What I've helped quite a number of people with is designation of space. You need to make it very easy for a prospective purchaser to walk through a house and be very clear what they would do in each room. Space is at a premium, and if you have a family all doing different things with a space - eating, cooking, homework, music, watching telly - the buyer gets confused. And because there's so much competition out there on the market, the last thing you want to do is confuse them. So designation of space. And it's important to be very aware of who the target market for the house is. People have often chosen their house as a couple ten years ago, they've now got three kids and are trying to sell it to who they were ten years ago, to a couple who are thinking about starting a family. But they've lost track of what they liked about it when they chose it. They have to think about what sold them the house ten years ago, and present it accordingly. Selling houses isn't something people do very often, so it's not something they're particularly experienced at. And they are making some pretty basic errors in some cases.

 

So what are the golden rules for sellers?
Tidy away any clutter. Designate space clearly. You've got to have the right price, so consider that very carefully. Also, it's important to choose the right agent - one who's used to selling your type of property. So go and have a look in the window at what else they're selling. And then there's standard stuff like agents' details. I've seen some hideous mistakes on agents' details that the owners haven't picked up themselves. And photos have got to be good - I've seen some pretty hideous agents' photos. First impressions really count, so your kerb appeal has to be as good as it possibly can be. The house needs to look as inviting as possible in order to get viewers through the front door. It's only having entered the house that they'll be able to appreciate the interior.

 

If you're going in selling these properties, then they're not being done through the estate agent. Does that mean you've got local estate agents up in arms?
No, we haven't actually. I'm not in this to make money from the sales, I just want to make a difference. In all the cases, the owners of the house will have an existing contract with the estate agent, so the house will still be sold through them. I'm there to help get the buyer and seller together. Once that's done, I'll leave it to the agents.

 

Estate agents are quite often mocked and derided. But is there a sense in which, if they were doing their jobs properly, you wouldn't be needed to go in there and tell their clients how to sell their houses?
You're absolutely right. However, in a market like this, where activity and volumes are low, agents are desperate for any business they can win. So the last thing they want to do is even potentially upsetting the person who has just given them the business. But you're absolutely right, one of the things people are paying the agent several per cent for is their advice. So agents should give it, and owners of houses should listen to it, because that's what they're paying them for.

 

How have you been getting on? Have you had a lot of success, or is it still too early to tell?
It's still a bit early to tell, but we've managed to put together a good few deals already, and we've got quite a number of second viewings happening this week. What we have done is transformed houses with a fair amount of effort and a little bit of cash. Can I bring round the right buyer on the right day? That's quite ambitious, but we're doing okay. And if not, we're certainly laying the foundations for much better chances of sales in the future.

 

Do you lose track of which houses are which?
It's difficult to keep track of geography. I never lose track of the houses or the people or who's doing what deal, but I sometimes lose track of actually where it was. It's all pretty manic, I'm in a different hotel every night.

 

Have you enjoyed it?
It's very intense, because it's just me and I'm used to having Kirstie [co-presenter Kirstie Allsopp] filming with me. And there's a lot to get through. There's a lot of people I meet and talk to, and things to research, so it's pretty full on. I've enjoyed it more as we've got under the skin of it. To start with, I just thought ‘Oh God! I've bitten off more than I can handle here." But as we've got further into the series, it's all started to take shape, and I've enjoyed it a lot more.  [At this point a crew member interrupts, to inform Phil that one of the properties featured on the show has just sold. Cue delight all round.] There are lots of people on the team, but when deals happen, it really pumps everybody up.

 

What is it that you enjoy so much about property? Is it the business side, or the aesthetics, or...
Whilst I do enjoy both of those, it's neither of these that is at the root of my passion, actually. What has always appealed to me, and still does so, is helping people and making a difference. We all live somewhere, and a home is such a precious thing, and such an expensive thing. It's our sanctuary, it's our private space, it's where we put our treasured things and bring our families up. It's all that that fascinates me, in helping people make those decisions.

 

Do you move house quite a lot, or are you settled?
No, I hate moving house! I've been where I am for six years, and before that for five years. No, I like to make the right decisions. It's such a big decision, and it's so expensive to move, you've got to get it right. I find moving quite unsettling, so I was careful to buy a house that I could adapt to suit changing needs. Today it's almost twice as big as it was when I originally bought it.

 

I imagine six years ago, the estate agent opening the door to you must have had a heart attack.
I never met the people I was buying from, and I did say to the agent ‘Look, if they know what I do for a living, it isn't going to help you or me. Because either they'll think ‘Oh my house is great, Phil Spencer wants it,' or ‘Phil Spencer wants it, he must be stealing it off me for the wrong price.'

 

Phil Spencer: Secret Agent is on weekdays at 10:55am from Monday 10th October on Channel 4