Tony Blair interviewed on immigration and the rise of UKIP

16 March 2015

Please credit Things We Won’t Say About Race That Are True. Chanel 4, 9pm, 19th March if you use any part of this transcript.

Tony Blair discusses his government’s immigration policies and how to put forward the benefits he believes that migrants from Eastern Europe have bought to the UK in an upcoming Channel 4 documentary. (Things We Won’t Say About Race That Are True. Chanel 4, 9pm, 19th March).

The documentary, written and presented by Trevor Phillips, the man at the heart of 30 years of effort to reduce discrimination and improve equality across the UK, interviews politicians Blair, Jack Straw, Nigel Farage and equality campaigners and argues that while much of the work of those in the “equality movement” has changed Britain for the better, it may also have led to serious and unwanted consequences that could undermine what’s been achieved.

 

Trevor Phillips:

First of all, in 2004 after you and David Blunkett appointed me to the CRE, you made the decision on access on the immigration from Eastern Europe. And I supported that decision. Jack Straw now says it was a mistake in fact a spectacular mistake. Right?

Tony Blair:

No I don't agree it was a mistake.

And we were in 2004 .. by the way all we did was bring forward what would have happened anyway. So there's a misunderstanding here. If we hadn't taken that decision people of Eastern Europe wouldn't come here. No. It would have happened, just a little later. And in 2004 the economy was booming. Actually we had a requirement for skilled workers from abroad. It made sense at the time. Now today's economic circumstances or the economic circumstances let's say of two three years ago would have been different.

But it's important to understand the principle of freedom of movement of people is a founding principle of the European Union. Once these countries come in that's the way it works. And it works the other way around of course which is why you know there are almost two million British people living in the rest of Europe right now.

The important thing with this is to balance out the advantages and the disadvantages …….. I think the most recent figures something like five billion pounds in terms of what they contribute over what they take by way of benefits. Most of these people are coming here and they're working and they're working extremely hard. So I understand the problem that people have with immigration. I've dealt with this all the time I was Prime Minister, but if you pose this question: supposing you put all those people from Eastern Europe back out of Britain again would we be a stronger better country? The answer is no.

Trevor Phillips:

Here's what he [Nigel Farage] says to me about you. He says: Tony Blair is the secret of my success. The A8 decision and also the whole series of [] liberal metrosexual [] Blair-ish things. That is what drives UKIP…

Tony Blair:

First of all, by the way when I was leading the Labour Party we were winning elections ok so despite all of this and remember the 2005 elections the Tories actually put immigration centre stage, but let's just disaggregate some of those things that that that Mr. Farage is saying. I am in favour of equal rights for gay people. I am in favour of integration of people coming into this country.

I am against racial prejudice. I am in favour of a Britain that is open to the world because I think that is the secret in fact of our economic success and our success as a country over the years. I'm prepared to engage in that battle. So when these people go on about well you're sort of metrosexual I don't know quite what they mean by that but I'm not sure whether I should plead guilty to that one or not, but you know I don't like the prejudice that is at the core of what they believe and what's more they just run away with this idea that in modern politics: that the vast majority of people in the country support them. They don't.

Trevor Phillips:

Well, one of the things that threw Labour off at the last election was the encounter between your successor and the woman called Gillian Duffy. You'll remember the story. How would Tony Blair have dealt with that encounter?

Tony Blair:

I would have said to her I understand why it's you feel as you feel and why it's difficult but here's the other side of the picture. So if we want to keep all those people out of the country let's look at what their impact has actually been on our country and let's look at why the idea in the European Union that people are able to move freely across frontiers is a good idea. I mean you’ve just got to put the argument. She probably wouldn't agree and she might vote for someone else as a result.

You should never disrespect somebody who disagrees and just so that I'm absolutely clear I'm not saying everyone who votes for UKIP is racist. I'm not saying that at all. You've got to understand the concerns people have but you do have to expose the fact that what UKIP is offering is not an answer. And you know if you believe that it's not an answer and in fact all of the main political parties do believe it's not an answer your actual duty to the public is to say this is not this is not what's going to work. It's not going to solve your problem. It's actually going to make it worse.

I mean the truth is if Britain wrenched itself out of the European Union and this idea that you know frankly Nigel Farage would go off and I mean can you imagine anything more ridiculous than the idea that he would negotiate a bespoke agreement between Britain and the European Union? I mean that would be an interesting negotiation to be a fly on the wall on.

I mean it's not an answer to the problem so when you when you deal with this issue, I'm not saying you don't have to deal with it with a real understanding of the anxieties that people have, but your job as the leader is to try and say well look this is where I think we should go; I mean if you believe in the UKIP thing then say it but don't indulge their rhetoric [] because what you do then is you effectively you give them a greater credibility.

ENDS